Comments on: Dule-ly Noted, Clast Dismissed

By: Mike Aquilina

Mike Aquilina — Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:44:04 +0000

My understanding is that the person is already present, in Christ. This is the communion of saints. The icon raises our awareness of this fact of faith and enables us to contemplate the saints and return their loving gaze. It's a beautiful affirmation of us as embodied creatures. Why do we have a body? So that we might use it to glorify God. When we pray before icons, we're praying with the eyes, the mind, and (when we reverence icons) with the lips as well. The images of the emperor were perhaps evidence of the same natural human needs. But it's not merely pagan. It's there in the Bible as well, when God instructs the Israelites to decorate the holy of holies with images from nature and images of angels. It's at work, too, when he instructs them to look at the bronze serpent in order to be healed. St. John of Damascus details the scriptural background in his refutations.

By: Jim Janknegt

Jim Janknegt — Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:28:33 +0000

I was wondering if icons are intended to re-present the person. In other words does the icon make the person represented actually present. From reading about the origins of Christian icons it seems one stream of origen was the representation of the Roman Emporers. Where ever the image of the Emporer went people treated the icon as if the emporer himself was present, bowing, kissing revrerencing etc. This attitude seems to have carried over into the Christian understanding of icons. Our modern understanding of art is very different though. We do not expect art to make anything present except the canvas and pigment the painting is made from.

By: Fr. J

Fr. J — Mon, 24 Apr 2006 04:05:30 +0000

There was a great exhibition of icons from Novogorod at the Walter’s in Baltimore. It is a very fine museum. Btw, I prayed in the cave where St. John of Damascus lived at the monastery of Mar Sabas. If you are brave rent a taxi at Bethleham and take the trip out. It is a fascinating place. NB: They are very very Orthodox. However, I hit it off well with them and it was lot’s of fun.

By: xavier

xavier — Mon, 24 Apr 2006 02:50:19 +0000

Mike:
Thanks! I was always under the impression that iconoclasim preceded Islam. Well I’m wrong. Learn something new everyday ;)

xavier

By: Mike Aquilina

Mike Aquilina — Mon, 24 Apr 2006 01:02:18 +0000

The historians I've read say that the influence ran the other way, that the iconoclasts were influenced by Muslim thought and practice. It's my recollection that St. John of Damascus served as CFO for one of the caliphs. I don't know of any online edition of St. John's refutations, but it's available in a handy and cheap edition right here.

By: xavier

xavier — Sun, 23 Apr 2006 23:53:15 +0000

Michael:
Very intersting. OK question: just how influential was iconoclasm in the formation of Islamic theology? Reading the Moslem apologists’ hyperventalization on the subject, I’m struck at how similar they sound to the original iconoclast.
And is St John of Damascus’ refutation available on the NET?
Thanks!
xavier