Comments on: The Stark Truth http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2006/05/02/the-stark-truth/ Mike Aquilina's Blog Sun, 05 Feb 2012 02:03:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: John Pepino http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2006/05/02/the-stark-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-5790 John Pepino Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:59:34 +0000 http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2006/05/02/the-stark-truth/#comment-5790 Dr Aquilina: Though I am glad for Stark's work from a sociological perspective, I would add the following caveat: Stark at no point takes the supernatural into consideration. Nor should he as a sociologist. But the Christian reader should supplement Stark with the lives of those saints known for converting many people for a fuller picture. God bless, Dr Aquilina:
Though I am glad for Stark’s work from a sociological perspective, I would add the following caveat: Stark at no point takes the supernatural into consideration.
Nor should he as a sociologist. But the Christian reader should supplement Stark with the lives of those saints known for converting many people for a fuller picture.
God bless,

]]> By: Mike Aquilina http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2006/05/02/the-stark-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-190 Mike Aquilina Tue, 02 May 2006 23:01:58 +0000 http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2006/05/02/the-stark-truth/#comment-190 Why did early Christian women marry at 18? I don't know that it was a norm. I think it's an average. Why did early Christian women marry at 18? I don’t know that it was a norm. I think it’s an average.

]]> By: xavier http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2006/05/02/the-stark-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-189 xavier Tue, 02 May 2006 22:38:03 +0000 http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2006/05/02/the-stark-truth/#comment-189 Michael: Thansk for the clarification. I'm unsurprised that Christian women had much more choice. But I was unaware that they married at 18. Obviously at that age, they could carry babies to terms and were healthier, more mature (physically and emoitionally) as well as better prepared for the rigours of married life. It's interesting to contrast that with Islam which appears to have preserved the classical world's gender roles. Moslem women either are married or unmarried; doctor, teacher, mom and wife. There's no outlet for those who chose not to marry or don't seem inclined. OK why did early Christian women marry at 18? Was this a social convention among Christians or prudential sense gained from real life experience? xavier Michael:
Thansk for the clarification. I’m unsurprised that Christian women had much more choice. But I was unaware that they married at 18. Obviously at that age, they could carry babies to terms and were healthier, more mature (physically and emoitionally) as well as better prepared for the rigours of married life.
It’s interesting to contrast that with Islam which appears to have preserved the classical world’s gender roles. Moslem women either are married or unmarried; doctor, teacher, mom and wife. There’s no outlet for those who chose not to marry or don’t seem inclined.

OK why did early Christian women marry at 18? Was this a social convention among Christians or prudential sense gained from real life experience?

xavier

]]> By: Mike Aquilina http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2006/05/02/the-stark-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-184 Mike Aquilina Tue, 02 May 2006 14:52:03 +0000 http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2006/05/02/the-stark-truth/#comment-184 I don't think Stark says that the poor didn't convert. He's just asserting that the merchants did. Ever since Engels, many sociologists have examined the history of early Christianity in terms of class struggle: the church was a refuge for the poor who were oppressed by the rich. Stark is upsetting that apple cart, and he makes a very good case. He also demonstrates very persuasively that women had greater freedom in terms of vocational discernment, marital choice, and self-determination. One remarkable set of data he draws from the ages at which females married. Stark considers all the women we know about from late antiquity -- from histories, letters, tombstones, censuses, etc. -- and notes that pagan girls tended to be married off at an average age of 11-12, and that these marriages were consummated. Christians tended to marry at around 18, and women were usually given rights of refusal on the guy. Christians seem also to have been more liberal in the education of women. I don’t think Stark says that the poor didn’t convert. He’s just asserting that the merchants did. Ever since Engels, many sociologists have examined the history of early Christianity in terms of class struggle: the church was a refuge for the poor who were oppressed by the rich. Stark is upsetting that apple cart, and he makes a very good case. He also demonstrates very persuasively that women had greater freedom in terms of vocational discernment, marital choice, and self-determination. One remarkable set of data he draws from the ages at which females married. Stark considers all the women we know about from late antiquity — from histories, letters, tombstones, censuses, etc. — and notes that pagan girls tended to be married off at an average age of 11-12, and that these marriages were consummated. Christians tended to marry at around 18, and women were usually given rights of refusal on the guy. Christians seem also to have been more liberal in the education of women.

]]> By: xavier http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2006/05/02/the-stark-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-183 xavier Tue, 02 May 2006 14:33:07 +0000 http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2006/05/02/the-stark-truth/#comment-183 Michael: I have Rodeny,s book on my amazon wishlist, I should encourage my family and friends to buy it for me :) Your post brings up many interesting questions but I'll limit myself to 2 1) How come the merchants converted and not the poor? It,s counterintuitive but fascinating 2) How did Christian marriage transform Roman law? I remember reading Alan Watson's book on the subject and quite honestly women were nothing more than bargining chips and property to be traded (I suspect that all herder/breeder cultures are similar and the IndoEuropean group is merely a clearer example. xavier Michael:
I have Rodeny,s book on my amazon wishlist, I should encourage my family and friends to buy it for me :)
Your post brings up many interesting questions but I’ll limit myself to 2
1) How come the merchants converted and not the poor? It,s counterintuitive but fascinating
2) How did Christian marriage transform Roman law? I remember reading Alan Watson’s book on the subject and quite honestly women were nothing more than bargining chips and property to be traded (I suspect that all herder/breeder cultures are similar and the IndoEuropean group is merely a clearer example.
xavier

]]> By: Kyle http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2006/05/02/the-stark-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-182 Kyle Tue, 02 May 2006 13:32:29 +0000 http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2006/05/02/the-stark-truth/#comment-182 I really enjoy Stark's book, and appreciate your interview with him. Thanks for posting it! I really enjoy Stark’s book, and appreciate your interview with him. Thanks for posting it!

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