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	<title>Comments on: Your Ear&#8217;ll Love Cyril</title>
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	<link>http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2007/06/27/your-earll-love-cyril/</link>
	<description>Mike Aquilina&#039;s Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Mike Aquilina</title>
		<link>http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2007/06/27/your-earll-love-cyril/comment-page-1/#comment-151452</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Aquilina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 02:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2007/06/27/your-earll-love-cyril/#comment-151452</guid>
		<description>Eric,

Thanks for coming back. I, too, hope you&#039;ll one day enjoy those books as much as I have.  It sounds like you&#039;re already on to some very good reading.

I don&#039;t think Kevin was rude, but rather righteously indignant. One touches a nerve when one goes after a canonized saint. And, as you&#039;ll find in those recent studies, Cyril has already suffered mightily at the hands of historians with ideological axes to grind. Acknowledging the saints&#039; imperfections doesn&#039;t require us to accept all charges on the accusers&#039; terms. As I said in my posts, Cyril was an operator; he could be irascible; he made some lousy judgments; but I don&#039;t think I&#039;m whitewashing by refusing the portrayal of him as a power-mad, murderous bigot (yet somehow a saint).

There are times, for Kevin as for Cyril, when the passions arise to serve their natural purpose, in this case the restoration of justice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric,</p>
<p>Thanks for coming back. I, too, hope you&#8217;ll one day enjoy those books as much as I have.  It sounds like you&#8217;re already on to some very good reading.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Kevin was rude, but rather righteously indignant. One touches a nerve when one goes after a canonized saint. And, as you&#8217;ll find in those recent studies, Cyril has already suffered mightily at the hands of historians with ideological axes to grind. Acknowledging the saints&#8217; imperfections doesn&#8217;t require us to accept all charges on the accusers&#8217; terms. As I said in my posts, Cyril was an operator; he could be irascible; he made some lousy judgments; but I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m whitewashing by refusing the portrayal of him as a power-mad, murderous bigot (yet somehow a saint).</p>
<p>There are times, for Kevin as for Cyril, when the passions arise to serve their natural purpose, in this case the restoration of justice.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric G.</title>
		<link>http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2007/06/27/your-earll-love-cyril/comment-page-1/#comment-151430</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 02:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2007/06/27/your-earll-love-cyril/#comment-151430</guid>
		<description>Mr. Edgecomb:

Your rude reply was not necessary.

Granted, I&#039;m no patristics scholar. My knowledge of Saint Cyril comes from my reading of the relevant entries in &quot;Encyclopedia Britannica&quot; and &quot;Butler&#039;s Lives of the Saints&quot;, and my reading of volume one of Samuel Moffett&#039;s &quot;History of Christianity in Asia&quot;.

Mr. Aquilina: Thank you for your book suggestions. I hope I one day have the opportunity to read one of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Edgecomb:</p>
<p>Your rude reply was not necessary.</p>
<p>Granted, I&#8217;m no patristics scholar. My knowledge of Saint Cyril comes from my reading of the relevant entries in &#8220;Encyclopedia Britannica&#8221; and &#8220;Butler&#8217;s Lives of the Saints&#8221;, and my reading of volume one of Samuel Moffett&#8217;s &#8220;History of Christianity in Asia&#8221;.</p>
<p>Mr. Aquilina: Thank you for your book suggestions. I hope I one day have the opportunity to read one of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Maureen</title>
		<link>http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2007/06/27/your-earll-love-cyril/comment-page-1/#comment-151222</link>
		<dc:creator>Maureen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 23:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2007/06/27/your-earll-love-cyril/#comment-151222</guid>
		<description>Especially since Hypatia not only worked with Christian colleagues and had Christian works written to her, but is even thought by some scholars to have _been_ a Christian.

But it&#039;s so much easier to blah blah Hypatia blah than actually to research the real woman....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Especially since Hypatia not only worked with Christian colleagues and had Christian works written to her, but is even thought by some scholars to have _been_ a Christian.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s so much easier to blah blah Hypatia blah than actually to research the real woman&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin P. Edgecomb</title>
		<link>http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2007/06/27/your-earll-love-cyril/comment-page-1/#comment-150900</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin P. Edgecomb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 18:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2007/06/27/your-earll-love-cyril/#comment-150900</guid>
		<description>Wikipedia?! Crack a book, sometime! As a note of reference, Eric G., it wasn&#039;t Cyril who was involved with the exile and death (in 407!) of Chrysostom, it was the work of Theophilus with the invaluable aid of Jerome&#039;s sharp-tipped pen.

Suffice it to say, the only tentatively primary source we have about Hypatia&#039;s horrible death is Socrates, and he&#039;s not exactly a model of objectivity.  As all later accounts appear to draw on his account, they can&#039;t be considered primary, which particularly impugns their suppositions on the machinations of Cyril.

More importantly, if anyone is to blame someone for the death of another, blame the individual murderers in the crowd who did the deed (if in fact, it happened that way). Seeking some ultimate, if only tenuously connected, authority as the responsible party would have every crime attributed to all but those who commit them.  Every person is responsible for his own sins and not anyone else&#039;s, whether or not they are labeled crimes by society.  Cyril, I&#039;m sure, would not disagree that he was responsible for numerous sins.  Hypatia&#039;s death, however, is not one of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wikipedia?! Crack a book, sometime! As a note of reference, Eric G., it wasn&#8217;t Cyril who was involved with the exile and death (in 407!) of Chrysostom, it was the work of Theophilus with the invaluable aid of Jerome&#8217;s sharp-tipped pen.</p>
<p>Suffice it to say, the only tentatively primary source we have about Hypatia&#8217;s horrible death is Socrates, and he&#8217;s not exactly a model of objectivity.  As all later accounts appear to draw on his account, they can&#8217;t be considered primary, which particularly impugns their suppositions on the machinations of Cyril.</p>
<p>More importantly, if anyone is to blame someone for the death of another, blame the individual murderers in the crowd who did the deed (if in fact, it happened that way). Seeking some ultimate, if only tenuously connected, authority as the responsible party would have every crime attributed to all but those who commit them.  Every person is responsible for his own sins and not anyone else&#8217;s, whether or not they are labeled crimes by society.  Cyril, I&#8217;m sure, would not disagree that he was responsible for numerous sins.  Hypatia&#8217;s death, however, is not one of them.</p>
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		<title>By: vassili psyllis</title>
		<link>http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2007/06/27/your-earll-love-cyril/comment-page-1/#comment-150876</link>
		<dc:creator>vassili psyllis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 18:01:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2007/06/27/your-earll-love-cyril/#comment-150876</guid>
		<description>one more thing:
Mike&#039;s title (&quot;Cyrill the Virile&quot;) says everything about that wonderful man...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>one more thing:<br />
Mike&#8217;s title (&#8220;Cyrill the Virile&#8221;) says everything about that wonderful man&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: vassili psyllis</title>
		<link>http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2007/06/27/your-earll-love-cyril/comment-page-1/#comment-150875</link>
		<dc:creator>vassili psyllis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2007/06/27/your-earll-love-cyril/#comment-150875</guid>
		<description>just two remarks:
1/ we do not have any really reliable account-document of that time, of that place to support all these defamations against St Kyrill. (the case of Hypatia is too obviously a base propaganda--Alexandrian Neoplatonism is quite a muddy issue.)
2/ the only we have (*) is Kyrill&#039;s works-words; and we can judge him only from these, and what we can see there is something really great, something which has nothing to do with his commonly held &quot;portrait&quot;.

(* in fact we have something more: Church&#039;s--that is, people&#039;s--love and gratefulness for him since very early till late Byzantine times.)

/β</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just two remarks:<br />
1/ we do not have any really reliable account-document of that time, of that place to support all these defamations against St Kyrill. (the case of Hypatia is too obviously a base propaganda&#8211;Alexandrian Neoplatonism is quite a muddy issue.)<br />
2/ the only we have (*) is Kyrill&#8217;s works-words; and we can judge him only from these, and what we can see there is something really great, something which has nothing to do with his commonly held &#8220;portrait&#8221;.</p>
<p>(* in fact we have something more: Church&#8217;s&#8211;that is, people&#8217;s&#8211;love and gratefulness for him since very early till late Byzantine times.)</p>
<p>/β</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Aquilina</title>
		<link>http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2007/06/27/your-earll-love-cyril/comment-page-1/#comment-150847</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Aquilina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2007/06/27/your-earll-love-cyril/#comment-150847</guid>
		<description>The historical record is not so clear about Cyril&#039;s &quot;responsibility&quot; for these events. Alexandria was something of a wild place. Streetfighting among religious factions was very common. Among Cyril&#039;s supporters were gangs of monk-thugs, who did their own thing. The ancient historians who blame Cyril are all fierce partisans of Chrysostom, and they&#039;re probably trying to make Theophilus&#039;s nephew look bad. I&#039;m not out to &quot;whitewash&quot; the record, but I don&#039;t think Cyril has received a fair hearing in recent decades. For true &quot;balance&quot; I recommend R.L. Wilken&#039;s study of Cyril, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html%3FASIN=0300013833%26tag=mikeaquilina1-20%26lcode=xm2%26cID=2025%26ccmID=165953%26location=/o/ASIN/0300013833%253FSubscriptionId=0EMV44A9A5YT1RVDGZ82&quot; title=&quot;View product details at Amazon&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Judaism and the Early Christian Mind&lt;/a&gt;,  J.A. McGuckin&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0881412597/mikeaquilina-20&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Saint Cyril of Alexandria and the Christological Controversy&lt;/a&gt;, and Thomas Weinandy&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html%3FASIN=0567089002%26tag=wayofthefathers-20%26lcode=xm2%26cID=2025%26ccmID=165953%26location=/o/ASIN/0567089002%253FSubscriptionId=0EMV44A9A5YT1RVDGZ82&quot; title=&quot;View product details at Amazon&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Theology of St. Cyril of Alexandria: A Critical Appreciation&lt;/a&gt;. No one will accuse these men of doing PR for the old patriarch. They&#039;re men of gravitas and rather remarkable credentials -- again, not given to whitewash -- better sources of evidence and judgment, perhaps, than the gang at Wikipedia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The historical record is not so clear about Cyril&#8217;s &#8220;responsibility&#8221; for these events. Alexandria was something of a wild place. Streetfighting among religious factions was very common. Among Cyril&#8217;s supporters were gangs of monk-thugs, who did their own thing. The ancient historians who blame Cyril are all fierce partisans of Chrysostom, and they&#8217;re probably trying to make Theophilus&#8217;s nephew look bad. I&#8217;m not out to &#8220;whitewash&#8221; the record, but I don&#8217;t think Cyril has received a fair hearing in recent decades. For true &#8220;balance&#8221; I recommend R.L. Wilken&#8217;s study of Cyril, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html%3FASIN=0300013833%26tag=mikeaquilina1-20%26lcode=xm2%26cID=2025%26ccmID=165953%26location=/o/ASIN/0300013833%253FSubscriptionId=0EMV44A9A5YT1RVDGZ82" title="View product details at Amazon" rel="nofollow">Judaism and the Early Christian Mind</a>,  J.A. McGuckin&#8217;s <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0881412597/mikeaquilina-20" rel="nofollow">Saint Cyril of Alexandria and the Christological Controversy</a>, and Thomas Weinandy&#8217;s <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html%3FASIN=0567089002%26tag=wayofthefathers-20%26lcode=xm2%26cID=2025%26ccmID=165953%26location=/o/ASIN/0567089002%253FSubscriptionId=0EMV44A9A5YT1RVDGZ82" title="View product details at Amazon" rel="nofollow">The Theology of St. Cyril of Alexandria: A Critical Appreciation</a>. No one will accuse these men of doing PR for the old patriarch. They&#8217;re men of gravitas and rather remarkable credentials &#8212; again, not given to whitewash &#8212; better sources of evidence and judgment, perhaps, than the gang at Wikipedia.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric G.</title>
		<link>http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2007/06/27/your-earll-love-cyril/comment-page-1/#comment-150751</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>An interesting post(s), but too whitewashed. Wikipedia has a more balanced account:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_of_Alexandria

Saint Cyril had the Jews expelled from Alexandria, and as at least indirectly responsible for the murder of the Greek philosopher Hypatia.  His conduct during the Nestorian controversy was particularly shameful; have you read how he convened and directed the Ephesian council?

None of which is to dispute his sanctity; it just serves no one to whitewash his career.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting post(s), but too whitewashed. Wikipedia has a more balanced account:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_of_Alexandria" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_of_Alexandria</a></p>
<p>Saint Cyril had the Jews expelled from Alexandria, and as at least indirectly responsible for the murder of the Greek philosopher Hypatia.  His conduct during the Nestorian controversy was particularly shameful; have you read how he convened and directed the Ephesian council?</p>
<p>None of which is to dispute his sanctity; it just serves no one to whitewash his career.</p>
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		<title>By: vassili psyllis</title>
		<link>http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2007/06/27/your-earll-love-cyril/comment-page-1/#comment-150686</link>
		<dc:creator>vassili psyllis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fathersofthechurch.com/2007/06/27/your-earll-love-cyril/#comment-150686</guid>
		<description>truely St Kyrill was/is among the picks of Church&#039;s lights-Fathers; unfortunately his personal-political clash with the very popular St John Chrysostom put him a bit aside in faithfuls&#039; consciousnesses; but, i strongly believe that, his thought is one of the most significant for us nowdays--a rich treasury of wisdom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>truely St Kyrill was/is among the picks of Church&#8217;s lights-Fathers; unfortunately his personal-political clash with the very popular St John Chrysostom put him a bit aside in faithfuls&#8217; consciousnesses; but, i strongly believe that, his thought is one of the most significant for us nowdays&#8211;a rich treasury of wisdom.</p>
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